Phase II - Your Post No. 1

Reporting for Roll Call - 15:15Hrs 7-10-13

Hi LT:

Back again. Took short break to take care of other matters.

Re: Your Post No. 1

Since I've never had to deal with the disability claims process, directly, I'll defer to your experience with it.

 

From what you say in your post, our Cherry Troop faces a VA which has an institutional bias against any veteran's claim for any kind of disability related to invisible wounds such as PTSD and/or toxin wounds of one kind or another. If its "motto" about that is...Lie and Deny Till You Die!...that means the VA is deliberately doing everything it can to obstruct the processing of such disability claims, and, has made that a matter of general policy. In short, if that is the case, the VA considers and treats such claims as coming from liars and frauds, who are only trying to "game" the system. My only reaction to such a situation is: WHAT IN THE HELL DID ANYONE SERVE FOR THEN? Worse than that, if that is the sub rosa policy, then every Sec. of the VA, every senior official of the VA...every shrink(as the one you mentioned),every administrative bureaucrat involved in the process are all liars and hypocrites (and we haven't even mentioned all our "honorable" elected officials such as the Pres. Senators, Congressmen).Talk about "conspiracy theories"! If that's the reality involved with such a process, then it's a doozy.

 

Sorry, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around such a thing. Is it really that calculated, that contemptuous of all those who've honorably served, that, should they make a claim for those invisible wounds incurred, they are considered and treated as frauds? I really hate to think so. Or is it simply a matter of a massive organizational incompetence, and sheer slipshod, lazy, bureaucratic inertia? Having said that, sounds like one is as bad as the other.

 

So, if it's is a matter of figuring out how to play the VA's game (something akin to Chess, maybe?),what are some of the opening moves our Cherry Troop needs to make? For instance...can you explain how a claim is initiated? And how is it put together?

CENTURION

 

Post No. 1 - Begining Phase II of Roll Call

Reporting for ROLL CALL  7/16/13  4:38PM

If you are reading this, you are doing so because you have completed the Phase I of ROLL CALL.  There are 24 posts in Phase I, and after reading these you should be familiar with the exact procedures needed to get signed up with the VA, have your first meeting with your Primary Care Doctor, and your first visit with your doctor at the Mental Hygiene Clinic.  You know the Rules and the Steps and you have familiarized yourself with the special links giving you more 'facts' about the current situation with the VA, and the reasons you need to get signed up if you are an honorably discharged Veteran.  

Remember, you served this nation in uniform, and you 'earned' your benefits at the VA.  And this is especially important if in fact you were physically wounded, or mentally wounded, or both.  This is not a 'gift'.  It is not a 'handout'.  It is an earned return for doing your job.  Like a paycheck at the end of the week, your benefits at the VA was secured by you for doing your job properly.  If anyone says you are taking advantage of the system by signing up at the VA for your medical benefits, then that person saying that is a MORON.  

Now we have reached a point in ROLL CALL where I will discuss filing a claim.  There are two kinds of wounds one receives in war.  One is physical, and the other is mental.  And, there is a third.  Agent Orange was sprayed on soldiers in Vietnam in order to kill them.  We did that to our own people.  Millions of people, not only our servicemen, but the multitudes of Vietnamese and other nationalities who were also exposed to this chemical weapon.  In World War I, soldiers were exposed to Mustard Gas.  And in World War II, they were exposed to radiation after we dropped two atom bombs, and also when we tested these atomic weapons by marching our soldiers through an area where an atom bomb was dropped.

I am going to call this third wound a "toxin" wound.

Not long ago, I was doing my Veteran Advocacy and I was helping a soldier who was in The Desert Storm.  That was the one before the Rich Man Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  This particular soldier is suffering from extreme PTSD.  Without going into details, my fellow advocates and the professionals working with me at CalVet here in Sacramento agree that this man has been 100% wounded with PTSD.  He did not get wounded in that fight physically.  But, he did bring home The Black Snake from his experiences in war.  

After much work on my part to get him to agree to sign up for his VA benefits, I arranged for him to see his first doctor at the Mental Hygiene Clinic here.  When he met this doctor, the first thing this doctor asked him was, "Are you here to play the game?"  This malicious question by this doctor caused this wounded Veteran to 'quit'.  

So, here's my point:  The VA is playing a game when it comes to 'awarding' a soldier medical benefits from these unseen wounds.  So, you need to know how to 'play the game' if you are going to succeed in getting your benefits if in fact you were wounded in your service to this nation by an unseen war injury.  I have come up with a motto for the VA today.  It is their motto.  It is:

"Lie and deny until you die!"

OK, from here on out, in Phase II of ROLL CALL, I'm going to explain to you how you need to 'play the game' in order to get your claim filed.

LT 

Post No. 24 - Winding Up Phase I

Reporting for Roll Call:16:30 Hrs

Hi LT:

I concur with your conclusion. We've covered about all that can be covered for this Phase. I hope our "excercise" proves useful not only for our Cherry Troop, but to anyone else who may or may not have realized that they too might discover some things of value for their situations. Hope my sometimes "hardass" commentaries haven't been too distracting during this dialogue. Old "centurion" habits don't go away...they just keep grinding on...aiming for the jugular. Hah!

Re: Visible versus Invisible Wounds: You're right about the physical ones. The process is relatively cut and dried. About the only thing that may be open to any discussion about these, given all the medical technological advances that have been made since our times of service... is...how will these affect "disability" determinations for such physical wounds in the future? But that's for another area of discussion at another time.

As to those "invisible" wounds, whether PTSD, or having been exposed to any kind of toxins of one kind or another, you are quite correct. Obviously, only those who have been field grunts (rather than REMFs),involved in multiple deployments into all sorts of weird field situations, not to mention direct combat ones, have any basis for any possible claims for "disability" because of those situations and exposures. As an example, whether someone was involved in tactical operations and combat, or, just driving supply trucks, humvees, etc. and getting blasted by IEDs, or field medics,doctors and nurses who, day after day had to deal with trying to patch up and save casualties brought to them (in some way perhaps having a stronger cumulative impact than anything else), there are undoubtedly similar mental health impacts, particularly if the service members involved had to endure such things over extend periods of time.

Granted, the severity of mental health impacts vary from individual to individual. It's not a one-size-fits-all thing. This may be where the current system has great difficulties coping with that. They simply haven't yet figured out how to effectively work on a case by case basis, because everything has been designed and organized for a "collective" approach. No question about it...it's a bitrch of a problem.  Which is where your rules about getting all records possible together are right on target. I might add, it isn't only individual records, etc., but also any specific unit field reports related to either actions, or incidents, which can add further support to a service member's filng a claim.

Well, this is as far as we can go with the subject right now. Meanwhile, you deserve a "medal" for what you've done here LT, but since that's way beyond my current pay grade these days...the beer and burgers are on me...the next time we rally at Sinbads or. at your Stalag Cluckenspiel.

CENTURION    

Post No. 23 - Things Are What They Are

Reporting for Roll Call- 17:35Hrs - 7-10-13

Hi LT:

Re: Post No. 22. Addy typo delayed this one. Re-posting it to complete sequence of discussion so far.

Re: Info and Records. Your comments on my post No. 21 shows we're both singing the same tune, but, I seem to be in a different Key. Yes, things are what they are, and we have to deal with them that way, but everything you mentioned simply highlights the points I was trying to make. While we have to work with what we have, there's no reason we shouldn't consider how what we have could be improved upon. Well, it's nice to know there's a Freedom of Information Office, at VA facilities. At least our Cherry Troop now has some kind of pry-bar to use for what he needs as regards getting records, including whatever his doctor(s)are reporting about him. Even so, everything you've mentioned so far puts the spotlight on and illuminates the -why- there is such a dismal amount of delay and obstruction in the process. Everyone goes ape hearing about the millions in backlogged cases, and wondering why it's so. What we've shown here so far, LT, is part of the answer...they keep using BandAid patches to "fix" things. C'est la vie!

Re: Well, now that our Cherry Troop has his act together, etc..what happens next?If there is a basis for filing a claim, what must he do?

Centurion

Post No. 22 - A Brief Fall Back and Regrouping

Reporting for Roll Call :16:50 Hrs 7-8-13

Hi LT:

Re: My Post No 21. I was expounding on the problem of how as a veteran, the system made getting copies of one's service record and related medical records difficult, to say the least. To repeat my position on that...a) A service member should be given these automatically as part of his/her discharge process. Perhaps on a disk, if a paper form is too much trouble for the Services to do. If that were routinely done, much of the delays and problems we've been talking about...would disappear. I see no valid reason why that can't be done. None. b) If it's a mattter of CYA for the Services, a simple "receipt" form signed by the service member being discharged, would take care of that. Once the service member personally took over those copies of his records, it would his responsibility for keeping these secure. It would be a relatively easy thing for the Services to do...K.I.S.S. c)To further secure those records, they could only be "copied" or otherwise downloaded, to another computer if the veteran involved allowed it, using a pin number or password. For example, if he wanted to give these to his PC doctor, he'd have to be physically present in that doctor's office, to type in the pin or password needed, to download those files, and these would be "read only" on the doctor's machine...they could not be transfered, printed out, or otherwise made accessible to anyone else....again...without the veteran's ok. Something along these lines  and they already exist with other applications.Well neither of us are "experts" in that stuff, but there are enough hi-tech hotshots around able to create such a system for this purpose. To summarize, one way or the other, any veteran should be able to get his service records and related medical records without a lot of procedural BS and admin. roadblocks. They're his, after all.

Re: Initiating a claim process. Okay, our Cherry Troop has done everything we've both laid out so far. He has his act together, his documentary "ammo" etc., and he' ready to lock and load. What happens now. Couple of key questions here:

1) Who initiates the action? Through his PC doctor? Or elswhere?

2) Is it the same process for either physical or mental problems, or do these require separate approaches?

3) Once whatever "paperwork" has been prepared for filing that claim...where does it go..that is...what part of the VA gets it?

Centurion 

Post No. 21 - A Classic Case of Instituional Obstructionism

Reporting for Roll Call:14:35Hrs 7-5-13

Hi LT:

Thanks, quiet, and a laid back one.

Re: Getting records. Your comment on my Post No. 20 is enlightening. You are quite right. Getting access to and copies of your service record and medical records has barely improved since my times. The VA site you mention is okay as far as that goes, but it really doesn't do much to "improve" the process. In my view, this where BOTH the armed services and the VA display what I consider institutional obstructionism. There really is no valid excuse for it. Let's be blunt here...handing over a complete file of a service member's service record, and related medical file while in service, to a departing service member should be a routine part of the discharging process, not something he has to do after the fact. This is a  key failure directly chargeable to the Services. That failure  thus forces a discharged veteran to then have to go through the VA's procedures to try and get these. If I recall correctly aren't these forms for that purpose, 88 or 89... for the veteran's "authorization" to the services Records Center (St. Louis) to release these to the VA...or some such? At one point, I tried to get my service records directly, and had to flll out forms,,,just to get them released to me, never mind anyone else! Worse yet...they were incomplete...most of my enlisted period was missing (which they blamed on that big fire of theirs).Which isn't quite true, most of those "fire destroyed" files were archived and burried in a mountain cave storage somewhere, but since these had never been microfiched, the sheer volume of them to physically search to retrieve them would be too long and costly..

Well, it seems to me this is one issue about the system that needs some serious correction, and every veteran, every veterans group, etc. should be raising hell to make it so. Maybe if everyone started pounding on the JCS, and the Sec VA...it could happen, especially if there were a concurrent pounding going on at the Chairman of the House Ways Means Committee, and the House Armed Services Committee (from which the Services get their appropriations). Our classic panzer double pincer movement. Hah! That could make it all happen in double time.

Re: Maybe this all calls for another "rule" here (No.7?). That is: From the very first moment, build your own record file. Make copies of any and all types of communications with either the VA or the Services, including any attachments, enclosures, whatever. And whatever verbal responses you get to any questions you ask, from anyone, request confirmation of that in writing/email or what have you. Better yet, take notes, and if they don't  or won't give things to you in writing, write your own record/memo of it, then send them a copy with a nice polite cover note asking:"Is this my correct understanding of our conversation?" The key points here are: a) Bureaucracies tend to magically "eat" paper files, then call them "lost". b) No bureaucratic verbal word about anything can be trusted to be true. Get it in writing, one way or the other.

If this seems too cynical and over the top...I speak from long experience with all sorts of bureaucratic beasts, whether, military, government, or civilian.. it's common to all their natures. That's the reality of things. Once our Cherry Troop understands that, "maneuvering" through their respective procedural minefields becomes easier and less stressful,The trick is to learn how to keep one's cool, smile a lot, and how and when to slip an ITG (Improvised Textual Grenade) into their shorts.

CENTURION

Post No. 20 - Getting His Act Together

Reporting for RollCall ; 15:40 Hrs 7-3-13

Hi LT:

Short one for today. First off...have a great 4th of July! For the occasion, I'll be playing my favorite track from your album - Voice of America...."Hello, America, do you remember me? We're the ones who fought the war every night...on your TV" But why nitpick. God Bless America, land that we love....

Re: Making sure our Cherry Troop has his act together. Your comment in answer to my post No. 19 is a bit confusing. That is, your saying that before he does any of all those steps we've laid out so far, he should sit down and note down all the events of his service, particularly all those incidents where he went through anything remotely resembling "trauma" of one kind or another. Sure, all of us could reasonably do that, but just because we assemble that record ourselves, the question is...how much weight will our Cherry Troop's own produced narrative have with a beady-eyed clerk/bureaucrat who might  review it? Not much I'm thinking. Seems to me our Troop should have official copies of his  service record and medical record in his hands before he even heads for the VA to get his card. Suspect those records are the only ones that will count in any disability claims process. Which leads me to this question. How and when does he get those records? So, if I understand things correctly here the suggested prep work for getting his act together should be as follows:

1)Besides your DD214, have copies of both your Service Record, and you Medical Record while in service, in your hot little hands. Bettter yet, make extra copies of all of them so you will always have one complete set in your posession, if you have to use those other copies to backup whatever you may need for an eventuality of a disability claim.

2)Head for the nearest VA and get your VA Card.

3)Get your assigned primary care doctor, and make that first appointment with him.

4)Meanwhile, connect with an Advocate to help you maneuver through whatever process you need to go through.

5)Meet your PC doctor, give him copy of your records, and ask for all those examinations and tests previously outlined.

Is this more or less what you have in mind, for getting our Cherry Troop's act together?

Re: Categories of Wounds: You know my views about that. A wound is a wound is a wound. Period. The only difference is how physical and emotional wounds are handled. The physical ones are self-evident, and handling these is almost  a cut and dry matter. The emotional ones are different because they are not self-evident, and,more often than not dormant ( much like a volcano, which can errupt at some unknown time almost impossible to forecast). This is probably why there is so much difficulty in figuring how to deal with these. This is where that first Mental Health Examination becomes a critical factor in the process we've been discussing to date.

Well, let's keep on keeping on....meanwhile...it's the Fourth of July....I'm heading for a shot of Cognac!

CENTURION

Post No. 19 - Reflecting On What Was As We Conside What Is...Todayr

Reporting for Roll Call: 15:35Hrs - 7-1-13

Hi LT:

Re: Coming home. Much like you, a lot of us who came back from Korea, found ourselves in a completely indifferent world. You landed at Travis on a moonless night, with no one else there waiting for you. I landed at McCord AFB, near Seattle,in an icy grey dawn, after a rather weird transpacific flight routed through Chemnya, Anchorage, and finally Seattle. Of course, I wasn't getting out, just being re-assigned to a new posting. Generous as always, aster almost three years overseas, the Army gave me 10 days leave to find my way back to the East Coast and return ,to report for a cycle of DI duty at Ft.Ord.  CA. Standing there in that dawn's early light, in threadbare fatigues, with a bulging duffel, an M1 slung on my shoulder, a 45 on my hip, and helmet, the only thing I could think of was...where can I get a goddam hot cup of coffee, followed by...where the hell am I...and where do I go from here.?

The only other human around, was another poor bastard in the same pathetic gear, who could have passed for my twin brother. We'd been seat neighbors on the flight. The only two on board who weren't on stretchers. How we were ever booked on that MedEvac flight from Tokyo, is a mystery to this day. So there we stood like two tall lonesome pines, in total blank state of mind, until a AF MP jeep came roaring up, with the lone driver of it saying...what the F...are you guys doing out here on the tarmack? You're supposed to report to the Ops Center. Get your asses in this buggy...like now! (Welcome home...dumbasses!). That was our homecoming parade. I  only mention all this LT because we weren't unique. Same with you kids home from Nam. You could multiply such little scenarios by the hundreds of thousands, every day. That's the way it was...not because of any real indifference by the folks here at home, but because both those wars, really didn't have much of a direct impact on the rest of the country...busy with catching and making out with the "good life". We bands of brothers were simply casual "litter" cluttering up the streets.Neither those two conf licts, nor those of Iraq and Afghanistan, really meant anything to the country as a whole (Not lke WWII). As for the Services, they were busy with various fire fights, those of us no longer involved...didn't compute. While our "experience" had some parallels, as I said, you were getting out...I lingered on for another seven years.

For me, by then, the VA wasn't anything more than some kind of vague outfit which could be a source of "benefits" of some kind or another. Meanwhile, I was busy, trying to figure out what an ex-armored unit commander could do as a civilian. Not much demand in civilian world for one of those...Al Capone was dead, and Brinks wasn't hiring. Briefly toyed with joining the MD State Police, or maybe manhandling bulldozers (they're tracked critters, right?). But now with a growing family to support, neither option seemed to fit. But good old Uncle said...hey...hang on there...work for me...pays better...perks better....and...your military experience is just what we need, and, as a bonus, the time you work for me can be combined with it, towards your 20 for retirement purposes. Meanwhile, we're trying to train a bunch of folks over there in a Kingdom called .... Laos .....attaboy....sign right there......and the rest of that tune lasted for another 8 1/2  years.

But this pattern fits a whole bunch of guys(and gals). As I previously mentioned...the Armed Forces are the Armed Forces....and the VA is the VA. For most of us they're just two different worlds with only a very, very vague connection. As for "benefits" much depends on how these are defined...and by whom. Education, VA Home Loan guarantees, medical, etc. But, each category appears to have specific time limits, and, apparently, maybe some financial means tests as well. What this means is...every individual veteran, besides doing all those things we've mentioned so far, also needs to check and see just exactly what other kinds of "benefits" ae available.

Well, enough of all this generic stuff. Reflecting on what was, has some valure, but, we need to consider what...is...today.

Re: Disability Claims process. So our Cherry Troop, having followed all the steps, all the rules mentioned so far, now comes to a point where he needs to file a disability benefit claim. How does it start? But, before we go further, I think it's important we make a distinction here between, normal medical care and treatment services, which his VA Card allows him to get from it, and, any claim for "disability". They are two separate things. Care and services are what you get, regardles. What priority of service you get, and what you may have to co-pay for some of that, depends on your VA Card Category. As far as "disability". that's the big fork in the road, so to speak.

Okay, how and where does it begin, LT? Have to think, our Cherry Troop's primary care doctor, must be the first link in that chain. What's involved? since we're dealing with bureaucracy here, and going through a bureaucratic exercise ...forms....blessed forms...are your entry tickets to the process. What are they? Who gets them? Break it down for us, please.

CENTURION

Post No. 17 - VA Not The Enemy

Reporting for Roll Call -=15:05Hrs - 6-26-13

Hi LT:

Will attempt to catch up today. Missed Mon. due to one of those nuisance cold bugs which had settled in my upper bronchial area. So...not AWOL....just short time out for SICK CALL.

Re: Your Rule #5 - The VA is not the enemy(even if it just often feels that way!) On the whole I'll go along with that, but, it still has a long way to go before we can say it is  "outcome" oriented...instead of fixated on "crocheting" procedudres.That's not to say it isn't filled with dedicated and well-meaning people, many fellow veterans, but they're constrained in their desire to help and do the right thing, by a "legalistic" set of rules and regulations... which can be squarely laid back at...Congress' door...not the VA's. Of course there's the other, and inherent, factor related to the nature of any bureaucracy which, over time...tends to fossilize its SOPs.

But that's the way things are, so, whatever we do on this -front end- to help others learn how to maneuver successully through the complexities imposed by the "system", is good. Our analogy of it being like a mine field, and we're just trying to perceive and avoid the mines as we go through it...is as apt as it gets. Yet we should not also overlook any opportunities or means to pressure Congress about such things. I'll be blunt here...it is always ready and willing to send our troops into harms way, but, when it comes time to pay the butcher's bill for such military forays...it's very reluctant to honor those obligations. And it's that reluctance by Congress which drives how the VA deals with claims,etc. In my view, every parent, spouse, or any other relative or citizen, who has, or knows, someone serving our country should be pounding and their Representatives and Senators doors demanding their support to make things right...so we don't have the kinds of backlogs and delays like we have today. I would also think that every veterans organization should be out there screaming bloody hell too. Hmm...how many do you think really are doing that? Good question. Like we've said before...everyone supports our troops...till they have the gall to come marching home(even if they're gimping along)...instead of in a flag-draped box. It's nice to know we've all served such a grateful nation.

Such a viewpoint probably makes me into a full-blown "heretic". So be it! Let them prove me wrong by what they do..not what they say (like I've said, I'm from Missouri...so I'll believe them only when they have...shown us).

Re: A soldier's last words. Truly sad, sad, sad. The worse part about it is... he's not a lone case. He was obiviously very conflicted about some of the things he was forced to participate in. All that on top of his physical wounds...is as horrendous as it gets. The most gut-wrenching part of his letter is the way he feels  that his physical and emotional miseries are his fault, and how, his suicide, will leave both his family and the world...better off. Even more appalling is the apparent calm and rational tone of how he analyzed his situation to come to his conclusion. It was not just because of desparation...it sounds like he had convinced himself that self-sacrifice was the only honorable thing left for him to do under such circumstances. It speaks volumes about the real character of most of our service members. Truly, the pride of our country. They deserve mcuh better than this.

Re: Okay...back to our Cherry Troop...what we've shown him so far is...don't expect someone else to take the initiative and give you the information you need. You have to get it yourself. To summarize, right at discharge, go get that VA card, ask for a primary care physician, make and keep that first appointment with him/her. Here's the key at this point:

a)Ask for a referral for a complete Mental Health evaluation,

b)Concurrently, request a complete head to toe physical, so there is an immediate record of your combined physcal and emotional existing condition.

c)If you were on the ground where there was any use of Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium, or other toxins, request the right set of blood tests for any of these. If you were exposed, those tests will show it. Keep in mind, it's not about how, or when...but that you were...exposed...and those test will either support that or not. This is important because, their effects are not always early...but develope later on....sometimes much later..those test results will be difficult to ignore or discount...when the need arises.

Okay, LT...am I more or less on target with that summary? Hope so, because I'm really interested now in getting into what supporting documentation  is necessary, and how that's gotten together.

Have to break off for today...some of that medicine is making me go see a dog about a fire hydrant.

CENTURION   

Post No. 17 - A Soldiers Last Words

Reporting for ROLL CALL  1:51PM  6/24/13

As a songwriter, I have come up with new 'names' for PTSD, nightmares and suicide.  I call PTSD "The Black Snake".  It is a war wound that coils within the soul of the wounded inflicting life long pain.  I call nightmares "Dancing with the Devil's Daughter.  Those wounded with the Black Snake coiled within their souls suffer from having to Dance with the Devil's Daughter every night.  And, I call suicide "The Pit of Nadir".  Often times, the wounded warrior falls into the Pit of Nadir.....

I want to bring to your attention our "LINKS OF INTEREST" on this ROLL CALL page.  I just added a new one called "A Soldier's Last Words".  

We are receiving a whole lot of 'hits' now on this unique page.  ROLL CALL is spreading across our land, and I am receiving lots of comments.  I'm actually now helping some Veterans as their Veteran Advocate.  I look forward to doing more to help if they want it.  This link was sent to me by an older Mormon from Washington State who is not a Veteran, but is terribly concerned about our wounded warriors.  I thank her for sending this to me.

Please read this letter.  His last.  He was writing it as he was falling into the Pit of Nadir.  Tired of Dancing with the Devil's Daughter, and too afraid to face the Black Snake one more time.  This is the way many who suffer war wounds respond.  

This is why it is so terribly important to follow the Rules and Steps here on ROLL CALL.  And, it is so important for any reading these words who need help to study this web site from top to bottom.  It's taken us a little bit of time to 'zone in' on it, but now there is plenty of 'meat on the bone' here for any who need help to find it right here.  

LT Bobby Ross

Post No. 16 - PTSD as first item on the agenda

Reporting for Roll Call -16:15 Hrs.-6-21-13

Hi LT:

Re: PTSD - Okay, you recommend that PTSD should be the first item on a veteran's agenda,to get his prmary doctor to set up an appointment with Mental Health Clinic, for an evaluation, and that this should be done completely separate from any other medical problems. Per your comment, to mention anything else just gives the VA bureaucracy a stronger opening to stall when it comes to filing a claim.

What this tells me is that the medical channels at the VA really have little to say about determining "disability". All they can do is give the medical facts about a given case, but not provide any kind of evaluation relating to disability. If that's the case then that's another one of those "landmines" in the process we were talking about.

Now, having gotten that appointment with the Mental Health folks, our Cherry Troop then faces whatever phsychological hoops these want him to jump through. And from that...are they the ones who make an evaluation about his level of PTSD? If so what happens next?

Re: For other problems, like Agent Orange impacts, you seem to be recommending that these be done separately. A shotgun approach?

Maybe it's just me, but such a piecemeal approach seems as cockamaimy a process as can be imagined. That's what it sounds like to me...but what do I know?

CENTURION  

Post No.15 - Moving into the Process

Reporting for Roll Call - 15:15Hrs - 6-19-13

Hi LT:

Re: VA Card...as I previously mentioned the medical services of the VA were then for those with service connected problems/disabilities or retirees. Maybe it was in the 90s, but it took enabling legislation by Congress to make it otherwise. If you recall, they mounted a big promotional campaign, including a deadline, to get veterans signed up for it. It wasn't until then that the idea of applying those services to all veterans really took hold. As far as I know, I'm still a Cat. C with that card. As to those who claim "they don't want or believe in getting a hand out", I've never considered that as anything but an ignorant outlook. Anyway, you asked me that question, and that was my take on it all. Any idiot can take a potshot at a situation, but it serves no purpose unless you have some thoughts about how to fix it...no matter how far out those might be (yeah, yeah...i"m as far out as it gets...I know.)

Re: PTSD...I'm with you, and glad we're getting into the process. The first thing that comes to mind is this: How is the claim initiated? I think our Cherry Troop should get some idea about it at this point. Who determines the need to file a disability claim? The veteran's doctor...both together? And what are the immediate requirements to do so? Can you give us some specifics about that? Not nitpicking, just curious and trying to understand the process. Well, I'm looking forward to that.

Short sidebar comment here...re: that 47% PTSD figure they've come up with...DUH...any veteran who has had combat experience must have been impacted by it. Granted, some more than others...interesting it's taken all those experts and pundits all this time to figure that out. C'est la vie!

CENTURION

POST No 15 - PTSD

Reporting for ROLL CALL  10:39AM  6/18/13

This morning, at Panera Bread here in Elk Grove, CA, I ran into an old buddy.  He was in combat in Vietnam, is my age, and is well off.  Happily married, a wonderful retirement and a fantastic home.  He has it all, and then some.  We got to talking about the VA, and by the time we finished, I had him on his way to the VA Advocate at our local VA Hospital.

Here's the long and short of it.  By now, here on ROLL CALL, we have 14 Posts with many replies.  We have 4 Rules and 3 Steps.  If in fact I could have read this all when I was honorably discharged from the US Army on Feb 4, '69, my life today would be noticeably different.  Of course, there were no personal computers then, and no Internet.  With this in mind, we are now about ready to tackle one of the most dreadful wounds of war:  PTSD.  Last week I heard a statistic that 47% of all American Veterans suffer from PTSD.  In one degree, or the other.  Some not so bad, some totally awful.  We are about to enter another room on ROLL CALL, and that is dealing with PTSD.

We already know there are @ one million backlogged claims at the VA today.  Many of these deal with PTSD.  Many of the Cherry Troops today, many with the '7 Year Burn', have been deployed more than one tour in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Some have severed 4 or more.  Let me assure you, these people are suffering from PTSD, in some form or the other.   And, from this point on, I am going to be dealing with the PTSD procedures at the VA.

Getting back to my friend an our conversation this morning, come to find out even though he 'doesn't need the VA', he does have a VA Card.  And he is receiving @ $200 per month for a disability.  (Maybe 20%?)  In Vietnam, he was a helicopter door gunner, and he also hauled Agent Orange.  He is now a diabetic, and there is no history in his family of this disease.  I told him to go to the VA Advocate this morning at the VA at Mather and sign up for 100% disability for Agent Orange 'wounds'.  He hesitated.  He told them the last time that they told him to go for PTSD.  His ears ring.  And, he actually did not believe me so much.

Then I asked him if he can remember when he was first diagnosed with diabetes.  He said 6 years ago.  I told him that he is 100% disabled, and he needs to put in a claim.  And, when he is 'awarded' his disability by the VA, it will go back 6 years to his original diagnosis for diabetes.  That means he will received a check for the rest of his life, tax free, for his 100% disability.  AND, he will receive a HUGE check for retroactive compensation going back to the first diagnosis for his diabetes 6 years.

He stood there and looked at me like I was trying to sell him some ocean front property in Utah.  Will he go to the VA Advocate?  Will he fill out the forms for his 100% disability from Agent Orange poisoning?  IF NOT, then he is crazy.  And, that's what PTSD is:  mentally ill.

So, now we are going to go into the subject of the Black Snake:  PTSD.

LT

Post No. 14 - Short Fallback and Re-Group

Reporting for Roll Call 14:30 Hrs 6-17-13

Hi LT:

Per our phone chat yesterday, I'm taking a short Fall Back and Re-Group moment here re:VA Card issue.

First of all, you asked...how come the armed services don't inform dischargees about their need to go get a VA card asap, after being discharged. I'm don't hold much with conspiracies here (diabolical or otherwise) Personally, I believe it really is just a case of -inertia- That is, the VA is the VA, and the armed forces are the armed forces, and although they're supposed to have some relation to each other, the two have never really "linked" together. In part that's also due to the way they were originally set up. Also, keep in mind, it wasn't until very recently that the VA Card was open to all honorably discharged veterans (2000-2002?). Since then, I suspect the reason the Services don't make any mention of it is because...it hasn't occurred to them that they should...it's as simple as that.

All of which brings us right back to some of our earlier debates about what's wrong with the system. It's not so much "broken" as way behind the times. The whole concept needs an "upgrade"...but no one has seriously considered doing so, beyond more or less cosmetic tweaks to it here and there. In many ways the VA is operating with antique procedures and structures, some of which seem to go all the way back to the Civil War!

Well. in our times, at least back to WWII. That's the crux of it all.

Okay...so how might this particular issue be fixed?

1) For the Armed Services part: These should be required to upgrade their part of the process by coming up with a new and common version of the old Dog Tags. That is, instead of metal, in the form of a miniature plastic "credit card" that could be swipable, just like with credit cards. This new plastic "Dog Tag" would have imbedded two strips. One for service record entries (from day one to discharge), and one for medical record entries(also, from day one till close out physical and discharge, including any annotations, evaluations, outcomes, etc.). The service member would have a personal pin code for access to it. Without it...no data accessible by anyone else, and only other option would be by some sort of signed release form by the service member. Lastly, as part of the discharging process, the Services would be required to provide a close-out counseling session, to include an information packet containing whatever current VA benefits and services that are available, plus, location, address, phone number of the nearest VA to the member's home town or place of discharge. Something along these lines would resolve the gap we were talking about.

2)For the VA's part: Should be required to produce these information packets for distribution to the Services. To further streamline the discharged veteran's connection with the VA, perhaps it should have a standardized corresponding incoming counseling process for each new troop that knocks on the door of one of its facilities. No matter where a veteran went, he'd be immediately referred to that "office". There, he'd register for his VA Card, and be assigned his primary doctor right off the bat...no delays at this point of the process. Strictly walk-in and wham bam...he's at the "intake" end of the funnel. Next, at his first appointment with his Doctor, he would present his plastic Dog Tag, the doctor would swipe his medical data into his own computer, the vet would enter his personal pin code to authorize/confirm it...now, his doctor would have all the medical EEI needed, for moving forward, to include that preliminary VA physical we mentioned before. The point of all this is that there would be no gap between the Services medical data/record, and what resulted from that initial VA physical. VA bureaucracy would have little or no wiggle room to screw around. Service provided medical facts about the veteran would be unimpeachable.

Well, that's what I think could fix things. It could be done very rapidly, and at relatively low cost besides, usuing existing technology, without overloading either the Services or the VA's budgets. A significant delaying factor would be eliminated, and backlogs of claims might become things of the past.

There are some related issues to all this, but this will do for now.

CENTURION

Post No. 13 - Re: Shrunken Heads

Reporting for Roll Call 16:50Hrs  6-14-13

Hi LT:

Yes, term limits are definitely something to push for, and, as you know, I've long been advocating a practical way to do it, without getting into a big fight over it with all those careerl incumbents cluttering up the Congress.But that's another subject to explore. Let's talk about "shrunken heads."

Per your comment my last post, apparently exiting service members are given a close out physical. Is that correct? If so, that's good. So now, as our cherry troop faces his PC doctor, who starts the process by asking him medical history questions. Your comment suggests that the doctor has absolutely no medical history info about the troop, even from his time in service. Correct? If not, how come? What do the troop and the doctor have to do to get that info? Apparently, as I understand it, the troop has to sign some sort of form "authorizing" the release of that info (Form No. 88 or 89?). So right there... is a delaying "land mine" Sure, demanding all sorts of exams, including a mental hygiene one, is fine, but shouldn't the troop's service medical history be included with all that?

Okay, so where and in what way does any-Advocate- fit into this process?

The picture I'm getting from all this, LT, is that, from the start, the process (whether for physical or mental matters) is focussed on crocheting procedures, not on expediting any outcome as much as possible.

CENTURION 

Post No. 12 - Getting Closer

Reporting for Roll Call 16:50 Hrs 6-12-13

Hi

First off...Re: Backlog Figure...that one million number was in various news outlets...not just the Net.

Well, we're getting closer to what I'm trying to get from all this...investigating the process...and doing a bit of "forensics" along the way. Your comment confirms things for me...you get fully checked out going into service...but nothing beyond a handshake when you leave it.  Frankly, it's not so much a case of indifference or considering any GI as nothing more than cannon fodder. It really is more of a matter of it being just an old practice...from way way back...which has more or less become a "normal" procedure (you might even say it's almost become...tradition).

Anyway, as I've pointed out, maybe that entire entry/exit process needs to be re-thought. That is,, given the state of the art in technology, perhaps those old dog tags of ours, instead of just the bare bones data on them, why not make them similar to a -flash drive -. On entry into service, the EEI re: physical, mental, condition is put in it.During service, any further medical entries are added to it. When being discharged, a close out medical entry is made, with whatever appropriate notes re:any physical or other dings incurred while in service. Something along these lines. Hell, instead of metal, the new style dog tags could be made of -graphene- (thinner, and almost indestructable). Okay...something the powers that be should chew on. You may be right...they just might catch up and get into this 21st Century of ours.

Moving on: Now, we've brought our Cherry Troop up to the point to where he's gotten his VA card,he's gotten an Advocate (of sorts...sounds like a 50/50 proposition to me), a primary care doctor,and now a complete physical. Based on the results from that, this puts him on the "threshold" so to speak. What if one of the results comes back showing he has either a physical or emotional problem/condition to one degree or another. What happens next? It seems to me that at this point the question of "disability" should logically come up. Who initiates that? The doctor? He's the primary care medical professional, shouldn't his medical opinion have some weight? Here's where things seem to get fuzzy in the process...for me. Can you elucidate on how things happen at this point?More importantly...who starts the process going forward?

Here's the impression I have of what happens. If you recall, last year, there was a big hooha about the Oakland, CA  VA facility having some 34,000 disability claims backlog. That suggests to me that the problem begins at the "intake" end of the funnel, not somewhere further up the chain. That is, it sounds like there is a preliminary evaluation/determination process right there at that facility, so if a given facility (such as Oakland) is not able to do that process in a timely way, all those who are trying to work their claim through it, get jammed up. Whereas at some other facility somewhere, if they don't have that problem, things move better forward. In some places, it may even be worse ( remember that other case in SC...the dead weight of those files were a menace to the structural integrity of the facility). All of which suggests that the key first "obstacle" or "land mine" in the process is the state of any given VA facility's capacity to handle the volume of claims it is handling. 

Let's do a bit of "disection" here, and see what are the pieces involved.

CENTURION

Post 12 on ROLL CALL 6/11/13 1:51PM

We have come a long way in a short time on ROLL CALL, and we have overcome some bumps in the road, and now, it is safe to say it is an established venue for any Veteran of the United States military system to use to educate one on the rights and benefits he or she has upon the honorable discharge of said individual.  This is not a BLOG or a 'social media' site.  Only 3 Veterans are running this site, and our 'mission' is to make available one 'truthful' medium whereby a Veteran can assimilate data not available from any other source.  It is also somewhat entertaining.  A dialogue between two Army Armor Officers who both had 'tank' experience, one in the Korean Conflict, and the other in the Vietnam "Peace Action", who have been Veteran Advocates for decades, coming together here, to question and answer each other in such a way as to share with others important facts as to how to get what you fought for in your service to this great nation.

I have a friend who is a few years older than I am, who is a retired police officer in the Sacramento area, a teacher, and a world traveler.  He is in my LRRP Network, and we meet several times a week at a local Starbucks here in Elk Grove, and 'shoot the bull'.  The other day, he questioned me about '...where did you get the figure of one million back logged claims pending at the VA?'.  I told him from the Internet.  He then asked me if I believe everything I read from the Internet?  I said, 'no'.  Then he stated that if he relays what I'm posting here and elsewhere about the million number of back logged claims, then he would be violating his principles of being truthful.  I then told him I have asked my doctors, CalVet consular and my 'shrink' about this number, and they all verified it.  Needless to say, I do not want any 'bad numbers' on this ROLL CALL, nor do I want to be spreading anything that is not the truth.

So, from the get-go, I have been directing Dan Da Man who is our 3rd Man here and my trusted web designer for most of my career and a fellow Vietnam Veteran who served with me in my outfit in Vietnam to place 'links' on this site.  Just today, I had him place a very important link that gives you the 'benefits' to an honorably discharged Veteran in every State in America.  These are 'facts'.  And, if you visit the links here, you will know the 'truths' we are discussing here are 'real' and are not 'rumors'.  So, if you in fact are a Cherry Troop and have been recently discharged from your service, or if you are about to be honorably discharged, this site is dedicated to you.  If in fact, you are a World War II Veteran, and you are interested in receiving some benefit for your honorable service, then this is also your site to gather needed facts.  

It is my mission here on ROLL CALL to entertain the reader in a way that makes him curious to see just what rights and benefits he has for serving our great Nation.  Be this as it may, I do hope the reader will benefit from this site.  And remember, I am here, as your Veteran Advocate to answer each and every question you may have, or to give me some specific information I can share with all here.  

LT Bobby Ross

Post No. 11 -- Baby Steps Forward

Reporting for Roll Call -14:35Hrs - 6-10-13

Hi LT:

Re: Your comment my Post No. 10. My impression is what you're advocating amounts to a "stealth" approach. That is, getting a complete, head to toe, physical at this point in the process, will preclude any later bureaucratic efforts to apply the "pre-existing condition" ploy against our troop. Fair enough, But this brings up a possible bit of reinforcing support here. When someone enters military service, they are subjected to a similar head-to-toe physical and even psche eval before being accepted for service. Thus, if the results of that are okay, that individual is deemed fit for service, and accepted, with no "pre-existing" dings of one kind or another. Later, upon release from active service shouldn' the Services perform another complete physical, like the first one? In effect "certifying" that the individual is free of any dings of one kind or another...or not. I'm not sure, but unless the service member was released from a medical facility, that isn't the case. When I was release from active duty back in the day...other than being handed my DD214, and a parting citation by my boss...it was just good-by-Charlie- and-it-was-great-to-know-you... I coud have been incubating the Bubonic Plague...for all they knew. So, in my view, this is one of the first "land mines" in the system. The Services should be requiredd to perform a complete head-to-toe exam before releasing anyone.

Okay, now, after some time has passed since return to the civilian world, our troop does as you advocate, and gets another (this time VA) complete physical. He will now have not just one, but TWO, physical "certifications" saying he is fine, or, has specific indications otherwise. Either way, he has a stronger foundation for any future needs. My point to all this is that our troop would be better prepared for any future encounters in the claims process, than he is currently.

CENTURION

Post No.10 - On With The Process

Reporting for Roll Call 16:25 Hrs 6-7-13

Hi LT:

Well, it was D-Day, and some folks did remember about it. At the rate things are going it may soon be seen as "ancient" history.

Meanwhile, I'll continue picking away at the process involved with filing a disability claim.

You are correct...a wound is a wound is a wound...whether physical or otherwise. The question boils down to what extent does it affect normal functionality? So, here's where the process begins, that is, having been assigned a primary care physician, and having had the first appointment with him/her, our troop now faces the first scrutiny on the subject. Physical problems from physical wounds are self-evident. PTSD related problems are something else. So...two questions appear to need answers here:

 1)To what extent does the PCDr's preliminary medical evaluation of the troop's condition have a bearing on a potential disability rating?

 2)How is that recorded?

What I'm asking here, LT, is who initiates the process...the doctor? So what does the troop have to do?

While the Dr.'s medical opinion must have some validity, I suspect that the next thing is probably referral to a specific specialist of one kind or another (that would seem to be a logical step to take).

From your experience, is this correct?

CENTURION

Post No. 9 -Moving on

Reporting for Roll Call ; 18:58 Hrs 6-5-13

Hi LT:

Well, now that we' ve chatted on the side, I now know where your responses to my questions are...and we can move on.

First, to summarize, we've gotten our troop with his VA card, and he/she is ready to continue with the process.

You may, or may not, have gotten together with one of those State advocate groups, like CalVet. But, regardless, you now need to get connected with a VA-Primary Care doctor. From what you've explained, you do so by asking the VA directly, and you will get whatever one is appointed by it for you. Once you have that, your next move is to make an appointment with that doctor for a preliminary face-to-face.

I think we can both agree that the most critical thing is...make sure you keep that appointment...and on time too! In fact...never miss any appointment, no matter whether with you primary doctor or anyone else.I'd even go so far as saying...keep your own log of all appointments, and with whom, and for what...so you have your own "record".

All right, so you meet with your PCDr...now you're on the threshhold. SIDEBAR COMMENT HERE: While my contact with VA doctors has been minimal, as far as I can figure...most are as good as you'll find anywhere else, and most are really there to do their best for you...whatever is medically justified.

The next question is....how does the subject of "disability" come up? I'm curious about what the interaction between a troop and the doctor might be for that. Believe it's worth "dissecting" a bit because that will be the foundation for any claim for it.

CENTURION

Post No.8 -Moving Forward

Reporting for ROLL CALL - 15;56Hrs. 5-29-13

Hi LT:

Well another Memorial Day has passed for us. Good as usual. Of course, it had its not so uplifting moments...like having to listen to some of our career politicos' blather on about how much they have done, and are doing veterans, etc., etc., etc. Like the Church Lady might say...isn't that special!

So, can somebody explain to me why there's a million or more backlog of disability claims at the VA..if these "honorables" have done, and are doing so much for Veterans? Well...it is what it is...but I prefer to move forward from here.

Re: Before returning to our cherry troop, however, let's clear up a difference in perspectives we argued about on the way to lunch on Memorial Day. That is, a lot of older veterans from earlier times have never filed fo "disability". That's not because any of them are shy about doing so, or having some kind of macho attitude about not needing-no-stinking-help-from-no-goddam-VA, etc.It's very simple...they don't have any disability, service connected or otherwise. Just because they served, and just because they were lucky enough to come out of any combat experience with neither physical nor emotional dings, they don't see that as any kind of basis for claiming disability or anything else. They have, and do, apply for whatever other "benefits" their service entitles them to however, but none of these have anything to do with "disability". That's the clarification I wanted to make.

Re: Having a VA card. As I mentioned, when they announced all veterans needed to get one, i did. Went directly to Member Services (my DD214 was in a file folder in an old footlocker, in storage, back in Missouri, at the time), walked in, and within a few minutes sat in front of a sweet young clerk lady.Even without a DD214 in my hand...no problem. Gave her my name, rank and serial nujmbers(enl & comm), dates of services, etc. Within minutes, she had all the verification needed, had me stand up against the backdrop on the wall, facing one of those mugshot-type cameras, a quick flash, and five minutes later I walked out with my VA card in hand, classified as Category C. The category for all those who are not either retirees, or with a service-connected disability of some sort. What this means is...yes we can use the VA for medical services, but on a tail=end charlie priority basis. Fair enough. I use it once a year...for a free flu shot. And the reason I don't use it for more than that is because I have.. MEDICARE.

Now, there are hundreds of thousands of veterans just like me with MEDICARE...which is paid for out of our Social Security "benefit"(taken right off the top from that benefit...a no "opt out" deal, of course). But we can't use it at the VA...because of the Congressional prohibitions against the transfer of funds from one Federal program to another(even though Congress does it every day of the week). The VA can bill any other insurance provider, but not Medicare. Supposedly Congress was going to fix that problem, so veterans could use it with the VA, just like any other medical service provider, but they've been screwing around with that for the past 10 years...and there's still no resolution. in sight. So...since I'm forced to pay for Medicare anyway...no sense leaving that on the table...it takes care of any HMO bills. The co-pay it would cost me at the VA, would simply add to any medical expenses....and those rates are adjusted annually, always upwards, naturally. Yes, the quality of medical care and services would probably be much better at the VA...but until the Medicare issue is resolved...the economics of it just don't work. C'est la vie!

Re: Moving forward...we left our cherry troop out in the rain, with his DD214 in hand, and perhaps he's also gone ahead and gotten his VA card besides. Obviously his next move must be to get connected with a primary care physician of some kind. How does he do that? Does he pick from a directory at that facility...or is the process much like getting a Public Defender (you get whatever is assigned by the Court).?

Well enough for today, give me some specifics in answer to these questions,I'm trying to report on how the step by step process works here which, hopefully, will shed some light on why there's such a claim backlog.

CENTURION

Post No.7 - He's standin' in the rain, standin' in the rain

Reporting for Roll Call 1605 Hrs - 5-21-13

Hi LT:

Well, our cherry troop is standin' in the rain, standin' in the rain...so to speak, waiting for the next step in the process.

Okay, so he's ready to proceed...how does he initiate the process of filing his claim? Now what does he need to do it?

Need to have some specifics here. I'm asking because I don't know. Since you have first hand experience with the process, enlighten us on how he needs to do that. You mentioned that you had recently helped a young veteran get his claim officially filed, and that it took almost a year to do it. Can you explain why it took so long to do it? The details of what you went through with him should be instructive for our cherry troop, as he prepares his claim.

CENTURION

Post No 6 - May We Shift to How To Mode?

Reporting for Roll Call 21:20 Hrs - 5-15-13

Hi LT:

If we're going to help anyone to understand how to file a claim for the benefits they've earned and deserve, may we shift to a how to mode?

Yes, we know the VA claim processing system is a mess. No question about it...and both you and I have a collection of annectdotes about specific cases on how screwed up the system is (as do a lot of other veterans too). So...so far we had brought our cherry/troop through to get his VA card, along with his DD214. His next step is....?

He needs to know that if his claim is going to be filed. Let's help him along here.

CENTURION 

ROLL CALL!

ROLL CALL!  It has come to the attention of many Veteran Advocates recently in America that the VA (Veterans Administration) is dealing with over one million backlogged claims.  Also, it has been brought to my attention that the VA is experiencing the "7 Year Burn" beginning this year.  That simply defined means that the Veterans who have returned from service in the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars seven years ago are now realizing they are in trouble.  With destroyed marriages, wrecked relationships with family and friends, drowning their pain with booze and drugs, and lost jobs and getting in trouble with the law, they are finally accepting the fact that the Black Snake (PTSD) is coiled within their souls, and they can't sleep at night because they are Dancing with the Devil's Daughter. They want help.  The VA can not handle over a million filed claims right now from the Korean War and Vietnam War Veterans, so how in the world are they going to do so with the millions about ready to enter their doors with the "7 Year Burn"?  I have set up a web site that I list here to help any and all Veterans get their claims filed with the VA.  You have to know how to do this!  It is not a simple process.  And, it is to the advantage of the whole VA system if Veterans get mad, or frustrated at the process, and turn away, go home, and settle for a life curled up with the Black Snake and Dancing with the Devil's Daughter.  PLEASE help me help our fellow Veterans.  Tell any and all about this site.  And spread the word.  Thanx!  LT Bobby Ross

http://www.vetrollcall.blogspot.com/

Post No.5 - Moving Forward With Claim Filing

Reporting for Roll Call 14:40Hrs 5-13-13

Hi LT:

Re: Your comments your last post. All of them give good background info, but I think it would be useful at this point to move forward with the Claim Filing process: That is, let's focus on the specific step by step things that need to be done just to get a claim filed. From a cherry/Troop's perspective it's the most immediate thing of concern. So, with DD214 and VA Card in hand, can you tell us what should be the next move?

We're not talking about the big picture here, just about getting the process started.

Re: Geting an Advocate. That's all well and good, and having one should certainly help maneuver through that mine field of VA rules and regulations, etc. But who has a clue about how and where to find one, especially one with the expertise and knowledge to guide you effectively?

Re: On the subject of Disability in general. There are obviously two aspects related to that. The first  concerns -physical- wounds.That's a relatively cut a dried deal because such wounds are self-evident. In the past there was a specific % of disability rating based upon any given body part involved. State of the art in prosthetic technologies these days, while not quite up to the 6Million Dollar Man level, will probably impact on determining the level of disability allowed in the future. The Wounded Warrior program is a good example of that. And we know of a number of these who, because of technological advancess in prosthetics, have been able to remain in active service, rather than just being discharged for medical reasons. Overall, I think that is a good thing. Good for the Service member, and good for the Service. A win-win deal.

But with those invisible wounds, such as PTSD, various head injuries and related traumas,b that's a totally different case. Unfortunately, because the impacts of such "wounds" are invisible( for the most part), and not necessarily immediate, figuring out an appropriate level of disability formula for these, the VA's system has never really managed to effectively do it, so, becaus of that, they stall, they delay, they crochet all sorts of bureaucratic hurdles, while they try to figure it out.

Well, let's leave all these "big picture" matters aside for now, and concentrate on getting that cherry/troop's claim filed into the box that will start his disability claim's journey through the process.With your first hand experience we should be able to "field strip" it down for him so he can see what tits parts are, and how they relate to each other.

CENTURION

Post #5 Enough questions for the moment! 5/11/13 12:04PM

You're blasting me with questions, Captain.  So, I've started a brand new post to get me back on at least one track, and not two or more.  Of course your Captain bars entitle you to wear two tracks to my one Lieutenant bar, even if it is silver like yours'.  We've come a bit of a ways in just two weeks on this ROLL CALL.  It's taken a bit of 'action' on the part of Dan Da Man and you, The Captain, and me, of course, the LT.  At this point, it think it is important to take an inventory.  We have established in this medium which is not a BLOG or a 'social media' site.  This is a unique site consisting of a dialogue between you, The CENTURION, and me, The Fisherman.  The 'mission' of this escapade is to enlighten, provide and teach those Veterans who for the first time are entering the Veterans Administration for your Veteran benefits.  

There is a 'game' to be played if one is to do this correctly.  Some refer to it as 'playing the system'.  Both of those 'slangs' are a 'bang' on what it really is that one needs to do to be successful with their medical benefits, and all other benefits offered the American Veteran for serving his or her country.  So instead of looking at it like you are going to be standing in a long line to a soup kitchen to get yourself a bowl of lukewarm gruel as a 'handout' from society, I would turn that around that you are 'filling out the paperwork' to be accepted to Stanford University, or Harvard University.  There is no way that standing in a soup kitchen line is requiring you to know how to 'play the game' or 'work the system'.  But getting into the VA's system, or getting accepted to Harvard or Stanford requires a discipline and proficiency of their requirements in order to prevail, or in the case of Harvard, Stanford and the VA, be accepted.

Frankly, I have already established three rules for ROLL CALL.  I am about to inaugurate the Rule #4.  If one of my grandkids wanted to go to Harvard, or Stanford, and it was up to me to advise them on just how to succeed, and be accepted, I would hire an 'advocate'.  In other words, I'd seek out a professional who could guide me through every process the institution is requiring, make sure I knew and understood the process, and be aware of all the 'i's' I need to dot, and all the 't's' I need to cross in order to be considered a 'real' applicant.  

So, Rule #4 here on ROLL CALL is:  Get an advocate.

Now, let's get away from Stanford and Harvard, and get back to the VA.  There are a million rules and regulations steering the VA System.  It is the biggest socialized medical facility in the world.  And, it is an American treasure.  I have been solely involved with it as my only medical service since June, 1966.  BUT, there are problems, too.  And with problems come complacency and 'burn out'.  Millions upon millions of American fighting men and women have been served by the VA since the first two, the Lamb Boys, fell at a little bridge in Concord, Massachusetts.  A shot that was heard around the world.  So, believe me, I'm not 'down' on the VA, and I'm not down on Universities like Stanford and Harvard having strict admission standards.

So, stick with me here and do feel free to read and re-read all of these posts on ROLL CALL.  And, if you have specific questions, do feel free to email me or Bill, and we will address them here.

LT

Post No 4 - Getting VA Card and DD214

Reporting for Roll Call :14:45Hrs 5-9-13

Hi LT:

Re: Your comments my Post No. 3...it sounds like your own personal experience is coloring your view point on this issue. Which is understandable. But I think we need to keep in mind that not all VA facilities are uniformally either positive or negative. Some are...others are not. There just isn't a common standard of quality. It's like chickenpox.

Re: Volunteer Services. The few times I've ever interfaced with them I never encountered any disdain from them. From what you're saying, again, it's the luck of the draw. As to getting that VA Card, when I walked in and asked where to get it, that info desk directed me to something called - Member Services - and gave me clear directions on its location, and how to get to it. Arriving at that office, found myself third in line. The young woman handling the process was very competent. I was in and out of there in something less than 20 minutes. I have since gone there a couple of times to verify the status of my card. Each time, it was the same thing....basically bim bam and thank you ma'm. So, for the VA Card deal, looks like how easy the process is to get it depends a lot on the facility you go to. Some will be great...others won't. Question: What's the alternative you suggest? And what's involved with it?

Re: DD214....Not assuming. Where do you get it? Perhaps a better question might be: Who issues it, and when do you get it?

Re:Okay, after clarifying both of these issues, what's the next step in the process for a cherry/trooper?

TO SUMMARIZE:

a) You may or may not get an encouraging word from a VA info desk manned by volunteers,and, who may or may not know where to direct you to get that VA Card.

b) Don't let that be a "deal breaker"...just smile a lot, play dumb, and keep repeating your question about where to get it. Sooner or later someone who knows about it will take you by your hot little hand...and lead you to where you need to go to get that Card.

CENTURION

Post No. 3 - Moving Forward With The Process

Reporting for Roll Call :15:45Hrs - 5-8-13

Hi LT:

LTs+Brains= Oxymoron? Hah!

Well, as our Laotian friends used to say. MaiPenLie(it makes no nevermind).

Have gone over your comment Re: Getting Started.  To summarize:

a) Before anything else, get one of those VA cards...but preferrably through the VA's web site, rather than in person at the nearest facility because the reception desk for that is manned by "volunteers", mostly older vets/relics from WWII, Korea, and/or Nam...who are not always ready with a "smiley face" to greet an incoming cherry-troop. As you put it this is one of the "booby traps" the VA installs to block the entrances to its facilities.

Frankly, given the choice of having to armwrestle with the VA web site, or facing down an old war horse in person, I'm more inclined to go for the latter. At least, it's another human...even if he/she might not be the most welcoming. Personal choice, I suppose. In any case, no matter how treated at this receiving point, the thing to do is to follow Rule #1.

b)Okay, Re: DDForm214. isn't that a veteran's discharge paper? He should have gotten that from the Service he was in, and, hopefully, made lots of copies of it, to have at hand, as needed.

 

So, now, our cherry/troop has gotten a VA Card, and has his DDForm214...one way or the other. What happens next? What's the next step for filing his disability claim?

 

Moving on to a sidebar subject : A Veteran's difficulty accessing his own medical file. You commented that it is not uncommon for the VA to be difficult about that. Why should that be? Unless, of course, it relates to a disability claim situation which the VA, for whatever reason, believes the medical info therein, might support such a claim. Hmmm...sounds like this can lead to a very iffy swamp patch full of not so friendly alligators. Let's leave it aside for the moment.

 

Well, so much for today.

Centurion

Follow UP

Reporting for Roll Call 16:05 Hrs 5-6-13

Hi LT:

Came across a news item concerning a couple of USAF veterans who have been unable to obtain their medical files from the VA.

Questions:

1) Is this a common occurrence?

2) Why should a veteran not be able to view his own medical files?

3) What does it take to overcome such a blockage?

As you know, even after all these years, my old Centurion/Troop Commander mindset still remains, so, whenever I come across something like this, I tend to go into a Papa Grizzly mode of...nobody can screw around with my troops...but me!

Centurion