Post No. 17 - VA Not The Enemy

Reporting for Roll Call -=15:05Hrs - 6-26-13

Hi LT:

Will attempt to catch up today. Missed Mon. due to one of those nuisance cold bugs which had settled in my upper bronchial area. So...not AWOL....just short time out for SICK CALL.

Re: Your Rule #5 - The VA is not the enemy(even if it just often feels that way!) On the whole I'll go along with that, but, it still has a long way to go before we can say it is  "outcome" oriented...instead of fixated on "crocheting" procedudres.That's not to say it isn't filled with dedicated and well-meaning people, many fellow veterans, but they're constrained in their desire to help and do the right thing, by a "legalistic" set of rules and regulations... which can be squarely laid back at...Congress' door...not the VA's. Of course there's the other, and inherent, factor related to the nature of any bureaucracy which, over time...tends to fossilize its SOPs.

But that's the way things are, so, whatever we do on this -front end- to help others learn how to maneuver successully through the complexities imposed by the "system", is good. Our analogy of it being like a mine field, and we're just trying to perceive and avoid the mines as we go through it...is as apt as it gets. Yet we should not also overlook any opportunities or means to pressure Congress about such things. I'll be blunt here...it is always ready and willing to send our troops into harms way, but, when it comes time to pay the butcher's bill for such military forays...it's very reluctant to honor those obligations. And it's that reluctance by Congress which drives how the VA deals with claims,etc. In my view, every parent, spouse, or any other relative or citizen, who has, or knows, someone serving our country should be pounding and their Representatives and Senators doors demanding their support to make things right...so we don't have the kinds of backlogs and delays like we have today. I would also think that every veterans organization should be out there screaming bloody hell too. Hmm...how many do you think really are doing that? Good question. Like we've said before...everyone supports our troops...till they have the gall to come marching home(even if they're gimping along)...instead of in a flag-draped box. It's nice to know we've all served such a grateful nation.

Such a viewpoint probably makes me into a full-blown "heretic". So be it! Let them prove me wrong by what they do..not what they say (like I've said, I'm from Missouri...so I'll believe them only when they have...shown us).

Re: A soldier's last words. Truly sad, sad, sad. The worse part about it is... he's not a lone case. He was obiviously very conflicted about some of the things he was forced to participate in. All that on top of his physical wounds...is as horrendous as it gets. The most gut-wrenching part of his letter is the way he feels  that his physical and emotional miseries are his fault, and how, his suicide, will leave both his family and the world...better off. Even more appalling is the apparent calm and rational tone of how he analyzed his situation to come to his conclusion. It was not just because of desparation...it sounds like he had convinced himself that self-sacrifice was the only honorable thing left for him to do under such circumstances. It speaks volumes about the real character of most of our service members. Truly, the pride of our country. They deserve mcuh better than this.

Re: Okay...back to our Cherry Troop...what we've shown him so far is...don't expect someone else to take the initiative and give you the information you need. You have to get it yourself. To summarize, right at discharge, go get that VA card, ask for a primary care physician, make and keep that first appointment with him/her. Here's the key at this point:

a)Ask for a referral for a complete Mental Health evaluation,

b)Concurrently, request a complete head to toe physical, so there is an immediate record of your combined physcal and emotional existing condition.

c)If you were on the ground where there was any use of Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium, or other toxins, request the right set of blood tests for any of these. If you were exposed, those tests will show it. Keep in mind, it's not about how, or when...but that you were...exposed...and those test will either support that or not. This is important because, their effects are not always early...but develope later on....sometimes much later..those test results will be difficult to ignore or discount...when the need arises.

Okay, LT...am I more or less on target with that summary? Hope so, because I'm really interested now in getting into what supporting documentation  is necessary, and how that's gotten together.

Have to break off for today...some of that medicine is making me go see a dog about a fire hydrant.

CENTURION   

Post No. 17 - A Soldiers Last Words

Reporting for ROLL CALL  1:51PM  6/24/13

As a songwriter, I have come up with new 'names' for PTSD, nightmares and suicide.  I call PTSD "The Black Snake".  It is a war wound that coils within the soul of the wounded inflicting life long pain.  I call nightmares "Dancing with the Devil's Daughter.  Those wounded with the Black Snake coiled within their souls suffer from having to Dance with the Devil's Daughter every night.  And, I call suicide "The Pit of Nadir".  Often times, the wounded warrior falls into the Pit of Nadir.....

I want to bring to your attention our "LINKS OF INTEREST" on this ROLL CALL page.  I just added a new one called "A Soldier's Last Words".  

We are receiving a whole lot of 'hits' now on this unique page.  ROLL CALL is spreading across our land, and I am receiving lots of comments.  I'm actually now helping some Veterans as their Veteran Advocate.  I look forward to doing more to help if they want it.  This link was sent to me by an older Mormon from Washington State who is not a Veteran, but is terribly concerned about our wounded warriors.  I thank her for sending this to me.

Please read this letter.  His last.  He was writing it as he was falling into the Pit of Nadir.  Tired of Dancing with the Devil's Daughter, and too afraid to face the Black Snake one more time.  This is the way many who suffer war wounds respond.  

This is why it is so terribly important to follow the Rules and Steps here on ROLL CALL.  And, it is so important for any reading these words who need help to study this web site from top to bottom.  It's taken us a little bit of time to 'zone in' on it, but now there is plenty of 'meat on the bone' here for any who need help to find it right here.  

LT Bobby Ross

Post No. 16 - PTSD as first item on the agenda

Reporting for Roll Call -16:15 Hrs.-6-21-13

Hi LT:

Re: PTSD - Okay, you recommend that PTSD should be the first item on a veteran's agenda,to get his prmary doctor to set up an appointment with Mental Health Clinic, for an evaluation, and that this should be done completely separate from any other medical problems. Per your comment, to mention anything else just gives the VA bureaucracy a stronger opening to stall when it comes to filing a claim.

What this tells me is that the medical channels at the VA really have little to say about determining "disability". All they can do is give the medical facts about a given case, but not provide any kind of evaluation relating to disability. If that's the case then that's another one of those "landmines" in the process we were talking about.

Now, having gotten that appointment with the Mental Health folks, our Cherry Troop then faces whatever phsychological hoops these want him to jump through. And from that...are they the ones who make an evaluation about his level of PTSD? If so what happens next?

Re: For other problems, like Agent Orange impacts, you seem to be recommending that these be done separately. A shotgun approach?

Maybe it's just me, but such a piecemeal approach seems as cockamaimy a process as can be imagined. That's what it sounds like to me...but what do I know?

CENTURION  

Post No.15 - Moving into the Process

Reporting for Roll Call - 15:15Hrs - 6-19-13

Hi LT:

Re: VA Card...as I previously mentioned the medical services of the VA were then for those with service connected problems/disabilities or retirees. Maybe it was in the 90s, but it took enabling legislation by Congress to make it otherwise. If you recall, they mounted a big promotional campaign, including a deadline, to get veterans signed up for it. It wasn't until then that the idea of applying those services to all veterans really took hold. As far as I know, I'm still a Cat. C with that card. As to those who claim "they don't want or believe in getting a hand out", I've never considered that as anything but an ignorant outlook. Anyway, you asked me that question, and that was my take on it all. Any idiot can take a potshot at a situation, but it serves no purpose unless you have some thoughts about how to fix it...no matter how far out those might be (yeah, yeah...i"m as far out as it gets...I know.)

Re: PTSD...I'm with you, and glad we're getting into the process. The first thing that comes to mind is this: How is the claim initiated? I think our Cherry Troop should get some idea about it at this point. Who determines the need to file a disability claim? The veteran's doctor...both together? And what are the immediate requirements to do so? Can you give us some specifics about that? Not nitpicking, just curious and trying to understand the process. Well, I'm looking forward to that.

Short sidebar comment here...re: that 47% PTSD figure they've come up with...DUH...any veteran who has had combat experience must have been impacted by it. Granted, some more than others...interesting it's taken all those experts and pundits all this time to figure that out. C'est la vie!

CENTURION

POST No 15 - PTSD

Reporting for ROLL CALL  10:39AM  6/18/13

This morning, at Panera Bread here in Elk Grove, CA, I ran into an old buddy.  He was in combat in Vietnam, is my age, and is well off.  Happily married, a wonderful retirement and a fantastic home.  He has it all, and then some.  We got to talking about the VA, and by the time we finished, I had him on his way to the VA Advocate at our local VA Hospital.

Here's the long and short of it.  By now, here on ROLL CALL, we have 14 Posts with many replies.  We have 4 Rules and 3 Steps.  If in fact I could have read this all when I was honorably discharged from the US Army on Feb 4, '69, my life today would be noticeably different.  Of course, there were no personal computers then, and no Internet.  With this in mind, we are now about ready to tackle one of the most dreadful wounds of war:  PTSD.  Last week I heard a statistic that 47% of all American Veterans suffer from PTSD.  In one degree, or the other.  Some not so bad, some totally awful.  We are about to enter another room on ROLL CALL, and that is dealing with PTSD.

We already know there are @ one million backlogged claims at the VA today.  Many of these deal with PTSD.  Many of the Cherry Troops today, many with the '7 Year Burn', have been deployed more than one tour in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Some have severed 4 or more.  Let me assure you, these people are suffering from PTSD, in some form or the other.   And, from this point on, I am going to be dealing with the PTSD procedures at the VA.

Getting back to my friend an our conversation this morning, come to find out even though he 'doesn't need the VA', he does have a VA Card.  And he is receiving @ $200 per month for a disability.  (Maybe 20%?)  In Vietnam, he was a helicopter door gunner, and he also hauled Agent Orange.  He is now a diabetic, and there is no history in his family of this disease.  I told him to go to the VA Advocate this morning at the VA at Mather and sign up for 100% disability for Agent Orange 'wounds'.  He hesitated.  He told them the last time that they told him to go for PTSD.  His ears ring.  And, he actually did not believe me so much.

Then I asked him if he can remember when he was first diagnosed with diabetes.  He said 6 years ago.  I told him that he is 100% disabled, and he needs to put in a claim.  And, when he is 'awarded' his disability by the VA, it will go back 6 years to his original diagnosis for diabetes.  That means he will received a check for the rest of his life, tax free, for his 100% disability.  AND, he will receive a HUGE check for retroactive compensation going back to the first diagnosis for his diabetes 6 years.

He stood there and looked at me like I was trying to sell him some ocean front property in Utah.  Will he go to the VA Advocate?  Will he fill out the forms for his 100% disability from Agent Orange poisoning?  IF NOT, then he is crazy.  And, that's what PTSD is:  mentally ill.

So, now we are going to go into the subject of the Black Snake:  PTSD.

LT

Post No. 14 - Short Fallback and Re-Group

Reporting for Roll Call 14:30 Hrs 6-17-13

Hi LT:

Per our phone chat yesterday, I'm taking a short Fall Back and Re-Group moment here re:VA Card issue.

First of all, you asked...how come the armed services don't inform dischargees about their need to go get a VA card asap, after being discharged. I'm don't hold much with conspiracies here (diabolical or otherwise) Personally, I believe it really is just a case of -inertia- That is, the VA is the VA, and the armed forces are the armed forces, and although they're supposed to have some relation to each other, the two have never really "linked" together. In part that's also due to the way they were originally set up. Also, keep in mind, it wasn't until very recently that the VA Card was open to all honorably discharged veterans (2000-2002?). Since then, I suspect the reason the Services don't make any mention of it is because...it hasn't occurred to them that they should...it's as simple as that.

All of which brings us right back to some of our earlier debates about what's wrong with the system. It's not so much "broken" as way behind the times. The whole concept needs an "upgrade"...but no one has seriously considered doing so, beyond more or less cosmetic tweaks to it here and there. In many ways the VA is operating with antique procedures and structures, some of which seem to go all the way back to the Civil War!

Well. in our times, at least back to WWII. That's the crux of it all.

Okay...so how might this particular issue be fixed?

1) For the Armed Services part: These should be required to upgrade their part of the process by coming up with a new and common version of the old Dog Tags. That is, instead of metal, in the form of a miniature plastic "credit card" that could be swipable, just like with credit cards. This new plastic "Dog Tag" would have imbedded two strips. One for service record entries (from day one to discharge), and one for medical record entries(also, from day one till close out physical and discharge, including any annotations, evaluations, outcomes, etc.). The service member would have a personal pin code for access to it. Without it...no data accessible by anyone else, and only other option would be by some sort of signed release form by the service member. Lastly, as part of the discharging process, the Services would be required to provide a close-out counseling session, to include an information packet containing whatever current VA benefits and services that are available, plus, location, address, phone number of the nearest VA to the member's home town or place of discharge. Something along these lines would resolve the gap we were talking about.

2)For the VA's part: Should be required to produce these information packets for distribution to the Services. To further streamline the discharged veteran's connection with the VA, perhaps it should have a standardized corresponding incoming counseling process for each new troop that knocks on the door of one of its facilities. No matter where a veteran went, he'd be immediately referred to that "office". There, he'd register for his VA Card, and be assigned his primary doctor right off the bat...no delays at this point of the process. Strictly walk-in and wham bam...he's at the "intake" end of the funnel. Next, at his first appointment with his Doctor, he would present his plastic Dog Tag, the doctor would swipe his medical data into his own computer, the vet would enter his personal pin code to authorize/confirm it...now, his doctor would have all the medical EEI needed, for moving forward, to include that preliminary VA physical we mentioned before. The point of all this is that there would be no gap between the Services medical data/record, and what resulted from that initial VA physical. VA bureaucracy would have little or no wiggle room to screw around. Service provided medical facts about the veteran would be unimpeachable.

Well, that's what I think could fix things. It could be done very rapidly, and at relatively low cost besides, usuing existing technology, without overloading either the Services or the VA's budgets. A significant delaying factor would be eliminated, and backlogs of claims might become things of the past.

There are some related issues to all this, but this will do for now.

CENTURION

Post No. 13 - Re: Shrunken Heads

Reporting for Roll Call 16:50Hrs  6-14-13

Hi LT:

Yes, term limits are definitely something to push for, and, as you know, I've long been advocating a practical way to do it, without getting into a big fight over it with all those careerl incumbents cluttering up the Congress.But that's another subject to explore. Let's talk about "shrunken heads."

Per your comment my last post, apparently exiting service members are given a close out physical. Is that correct? If so, that's good. So now, as our cherry troop faces his PC doctor, who starts the process by asking him medical history questions. Your comment suggests that the doctor has absolutely no medical history info about the troop, even from his time in service. Correct? If not, how come? What do the troop and the doctor have to do to get that info? Apparently, as I understand it, the troop has to sign some sort of form "authorizing" the release of that info (Form No. 88 or 89?). So right there... is a delaying "land mine" Sure, demanding all sorts of exams, including a mental hygiene one, is fine, but shouldn't the troop's service medical history be included with all that?

Okay, so where and in what way does any-Advocate- fit into this process?

The picture I'm getting from all this, LT, is that, from the start, the process (whether for physical or mental matters) is focussed on crocheting procedures, not on expediting any outcome as much as possible.

CENTURION 

Post No. 12 - Getting Closer

Reporting for Roll Call 16:50 Hrs 6-12-13

Hi

First off...Re: Backlog Figure...that one million number was in various news outlets...not just the Net.

Well, we're getting closer to what I'm trying to get from all this...investigating the process...and doing a bit of "forensics" along the way. Your comment confirms things for me...you get fully checked out going into service...but nothing beyond a handshake when you leave it.  Frankly, it's not so much a case of indifference or considering any GI as nothing more than cannon fodder. It really is more of a matter of it being just an old practice...from way way back...which has more or less become a "normal" procedure (you might even say it's almost become...tradition).

Anyway, as I've pointed out, maybe that entire entry/exit process needs to be re-thought. That is,, given the state of the art in technology, perhaps those old dog tags of ours, instead of just the bare bones data on them, why not make them similar to a -flash drive -. On entry into service, the EEI re: physical, mental, condition is put in it.During service, any further medical entries are added to it. When being discharged, a close out medical entry is made, with whatever appropriate notes re:any physical or other dings incurred while in service. Something along these lines. Hell, instead of metal, the new style dog tags could be made of -graphene- (thinner, and almost indestructable). Okay...something the powers that be should chew on. You may be right...they just might catch up and get into this 21st Century of ours.

Moving on: Now, we've brought our Cherry Troop up to the point to where he's gotten his VA card,he's gotten an Advocate (of sorts...sounds like a 50/50 proposition to me), a primary care doctor,and now a complete physical. Based on the results from that, this puts him on the "threshold" so to speak. What if one of the results comes back showing he has either a physical or emotional problem/condition to one degree or another. What happens next? It seems to me that at this point the question of "disability" should logically come up. Who initiates that? The doctor? He's the primary care medical professional, shouldn't his medical opinion have some weight? Here's where things seem to get fuzzy in the process...for me. Can you elucidate on how things happen at this point?More importantly...who starts the process going forward?

Here's the impression I have of what happens. If you recall, last year, there was a big hooha about the Oakland, CA  VA facility having some 34,000 disability claims backlog. That suggests to me that the problem begins at the "intake" end of the funnel, not somewhere further up the chain. That is, it sounds like there is a preliminary evaluation/determination process right there at that facility, so if a given facility (such as Oakland) is not able to do that process in a timely way, all those who are trying to work their claim through it, get jammed up. Whereas at some other facility somewhere, if they don't have that problem, things move better forward. In some places, it may even be worse ( remember that other case in SC...the dead weight of those files were a menace to the structural integrity of the facility). All of which suggests that the key first "obstacle" or "land mine" in the process is the state of any given VA facility's capacity to handle the volume of claims it is handling. 

Let's do a bit of "disection" here, and see what are the pieces involved.

CENTURION

Post 12 on ROLL CALL 6/11/13 1:51PM

We have come a long way in a short time on ROLL CALL, and we have overcome some bumps in the road, and now, it is safe to say it is an established venue for any Veteran of the United States military system to use to educate one on the rights and benefits he or she has upon the honorable discharge of said individual.  This is not a BLOG or a 'social media' site.  Only 3 Veterans are running this site, and our 'mission' is to make available one 'truthful' medium whereby a Veteran can assimilate data not available from any other source.  It is also somewhat entertaining.  A dialogue between two Army Armor Officers who both had 'tank' experience, one in the Korean Conflict, and the other in the Vietnam "Peace Action", who have been Veteran Advocates for decades, coming together here, to question and answer each other in such a way as to share with others important facts as to how to get what you fought for in your service to this great nation.

I have a friend who is a few years older than I am, who is a retired police officer in the Sacramento area, a teacher, and a world traveler.  He is in my LRRP Network, and we meet several times a week at a local Starbucks here in Elk Grove, and 'shoot the bull'.  The other day, he questioned me about '...where did you get the figure of one million back logged claims pending at the VA?'.  I told him from the Internet.  He then asked me if I believe everything I read from the Internet?  I said, 'no'.  Then he stated that if he relays what I'm posting here and elsewhere about the million number of back logged claims, then he would be violating his principles of being truthful.  I then told him I have asked my doctors, CalVet consular and my 'shrink' about this number, and they all verified it.  Needless to say, I do not want any 'bad numbers' on this ROLL CALL, nor do I want to be spreading anything that is not the truth.

So, from the get-go, I have been directing Dan Da Man who is our 3rd Man here and my trusted web designer for most of my career and a fellow Vietnam Veteran who served with me in my outfit in Vietnam to place 'links' on this site.  Just today, I had him place a very important link that gives you the 'benefits' to an honorably discharged Veteran in every State in America.  These are 'facts'.  And, if you visit the links here, you will know the 'truths' we are discussing here are 'real' and are not 'rumors'.  So, if you in fact are a Cherry Troop and have been recently discharged from your service, or if you are about to be honorably discharged, this site is dedicated to you.  If in fact, you are a World War II Veteran, and you are interested in receiving some benefit for your honorable service, then this is also your site to gather needed facts.  

It is my mission here on ROLL CALL to entertain the reader in a way that makes him curious to see just what rights and benefits he has for serving our great Nation.  Be this as it may, I do hope the reader will benefit from this site.  And remember, I am here, as your Veteran Advocate to answer each and every question you may have, or to give me some specific information I can share with all here.  

LT Bobby Ross

Post No. 11 -- Baby Steps Forward

Reporting for Roll Call -14:35Hrs - 6-10-13

Hi LT:

Re: Your comment my Post No. 10. My impression is what you're advocating amounts to a "stealth" approach. That is, getting a complete, head to toe, physical at this point in the process, will preclude any later bureaucratic efforts to apply the "pre-existing condition" ploy against our troop. Fair enough, But this brings up a possible bit of reinforcing support here. When someone enters military service, they are subjected to a similar head-to-toe physical and even psche eval before being accepted for service. Thus, if the results of that are okay, that individual is deemed fit for service, and accepted, with no "pre-existing" dings of one kind or another. Later, upon release from active service shouldn' the Services perform another complete physical, like the first one? In effect "certifying" that the individual is free of any dings of one kind or another...or not. I'm not sure, but unless the service member was released from a medical facility, that isn't the case. When I was release from active duty back in the day...other than being handed my DD214, and a parting citation by my boss...it was just good-by-Charlie- and-it-was-great-to-know-you... I coud have been incubating the Bubonic Plague...for all they knew. So, in my view, this is one of the first "land mines" in the system. The Services should be requiredd to perform a complete head-to-toe exam before releasing anyone.

Okay, now, after some time has passed since return to the civilian world, our troop does as you advocate, and gets another (this time VA) complete physical. He will now have not just one, but TWO, physical "certifications" saying he is fine, or, has specific indications otherwise. Either way, he has a stronger foundation for any future needs. My point to all this is that our troop would be better prepared for any future encounters in the claims process, than he is currently.

CENTURION

Post No.10 - On With The Process

Reporting for Roll Call 16:25 Hrs 6-7-13

Hi LT:

Well, it was D-Day, and some folks did remember about it. At the rate things are going it may soon be seen as "ancient" history.

Meanwhile, I'll continue picking away at the process involved with filing a disability claim.

You are correct...a wound is a wound is a wound...whether physical or otherwise. The question boils down to what extent does it affect normal functionality? So, here's where the process begins, that is, having been assigned a primary care physician, and having had the first appointment with him/her, our troop now faces the first scrutiny on the subject. Physical problems from physical wounds are self-evident. PTSD related problems are something else. So...two questions appear to need answers here:

 1)To what extent does the PCDr's preliminary medical evaluation of the troop's condition have a bearing on a potential disability rating?

 2)How is that recorded?

What I'm asking here, LT, is who initiates the process...the doctor? So what does the troop have to do?

While the Dr.'s medical opinion must have some validity, I suspect that the next thing is probably referral to a specific specialist of one kind or another (that would seem to be a logical step to take).

From your experience, is this correct?

CENTURION

Post No. 9 -Moving on

Reporting for Roll Call ; 18:58 Hrs 6-5-13

Hi LT:

Well, now that we' ve chatted on the side, I now know where your responses to my questions are...and we can move on.

First, to summarize, we've gotten our troop with his VA card, and he/she is ready to continue with the process.

You may, or may not, have gotten together with one of those State advocate groups, like CalVet. But, regardless, you now need to get connected with a VA-Primary Care doctor. From what you've explained, you do so by asking the VA directly, and you will get whatever one is appointed by it for you. Once you have that, your next move is to make an appointment with that doctor for a preliminary face-to-face.

I think we can both agree that the most critical thing is...make sure you keep that appointment...and on time too! In fact...never miss any appointment, no matter whether with you primary doctor or anyone else.I'd even go so far as saying...keep your own log of all appointments, and with whom, and for what...so you have your own "record".

All right, so you meet with your PCDr...now you're on the threshhold. SIDEBAR COMMENT HERE: While my contact with VA doctors has been minimal, as far as I can figure...most are as good as you'll find anywhere else, and most are really there to do their best for you...whatever is medically justified.

The next question is....how does the subject of "disability" come up? I'm curious about what the interaction between a troop and the doctor might be for that. Believe it's worth "dissecting" a bit because that will be the foundation for any claim for it.

CENTURION