Post No. 21 - A Classic Case of Instituional Obstructionism

Reporting for Roll Call:14:35Hrs 7-5-13

Hi LT:

Thanks, quiet, and a laid back one.

Re: Getting records. Your comment on my Post No. 20 is enlightening. You are quite right. Getting access to and copies of your service record and medical records has barely improved since my times. The VA site you mention is okay as far as that goes, but it really doesn't do much to "improve" the process. In my view, this where BOTH the armed services and the VA display what I consider institutional obstructionism. There really is no valid excuse for it. Let's be blunt here...handing over a complete file of a service member's service record, and related medical file while in service, to a departing service member should be a routine part of the discharging process, not something he has to do after the fact. This is a  key failure directly chargeable to the Services. That failure  thus forces a discharged veteran to then have to go through the VA's procedures to try and get these. If I recall correctly aren't these forms for that purpose, 88 or 89... for the veteran's "authorization" to the services Records Center (St. Louis) to release these to the VA...or some such? At one point, I tried to get my service records directly, and had to flll out forms,,,just to get them released to me, never mind anyone else! Worse yet...they were incomplete...most of my enlisted period was missing (which they blamed on that big fire of theirs).Which isn't quite true, most of those "fire destroyed" files were archived and burried in a mountain cave storage somewhere, but since these had never been microfiched, the sheer volume of them to physically search to retrieve them would be too long and costly..

Well, it seems to me this is one issue about the system that needs some serious correction, and every veteran, every veterans group, etc. should be raising hell to make it so. Maybe if everyone started pounding on the JCS, and the Sec VA...it could happen, especially if there were a concurrent pounding going on at the Chairman of the House Ways Means Committee, and the House Armed Services Committee (from which the Services get their appropriations). Our classic panzer double pincer movement. Hah! That could make it all happen in double time.

Re: Maybe this all calls for another "rule" here (No.7?). That is: From the very first moment, build your own record file. Make copies of any and all types of communications with either the VA or the Services, including any attachments, enclosures, whatever. And whatever verbal responses you get to any questions you ask, from anyone, request confirmation of that in writing/email or what have you. Better yet, take notes, and if they don't  or won't give things to you in writing, write your own record/memo of it, then send them a copy with a nice polite cover note asking:"Is this my correct understanding of our conversation?" The key points here are: a) Bureaucracies tend to magically "eat" paper files, then call them "lost". b) No bureaucratic verbal word about anything can be trusted to be true. Get it in writing, one way or the other.

If this seems too cynical and over the top...I speak from long experience with all sorts of bureaucratic beasts, whether, military, government, or civilian.. it's common to all their natures. That's the reality of things. Once our Cherry Troop understands that, "maneuvering" through their respective procedural minefields becomes easier and less stressful,The trick is to learn how to keep one's cool, smile a lot, and how and when to slip an ITG (Improvised Textual Grenade) into their shorts.

CENTURION

Post No. 20 - Getting His Act Together

Reporting for RollCall ; 15:40 Hrs 7-3-13

Hi LT:

Short one for today. First off...have a great 4th of July! For the occasion, I'll be playing my favorite track from your album - Voice of America...."Hello, America, do you remember me? We're the ones who fought the war every night...on your TV" But why nitpick. God Bless America, land that we love....

Re: Making sure our Cherry Troop has his act together. Your comment in answer to my post No. 19 is a bit confusing. That is, your saying that before he does any of all those steps we've laid out so far, he should sit down and note down all the events of his service, particularly all those incidents where he went through anything remotely resembling "trauma" of one kind or another. Sure, all of us could reasonably do that, but just because we assemble that record ourselves, the question is...how much weight will our Cherry Troop's own produced narrative have with a beady-eyed clerk/bureaucrat who might  review it? Not much I'm thinking. Seems to me our Troop should have official copies of his  service record and medical record in his hands before he even heads for the VA to get his card. Suspect those records are the only ones that will count in any disability claims process. Which leads me to this question. How and when does he get those records? So, if I understand things correctly here the suggested prep work for getting his act together should be as follows:

1)Besides your DD214, have copies of both your Service Record, and you Medical Record while in service, in your hot little hands. Bettter yet, make extra copies of all of them so you will always have one complete set in your posession, if you have to use those other copies to backup whatever you may need for an eventuality of a disability claim.

2)Head for the nearest VA and get your VA Card.

3)Get your assigned primary care doctor, and make that first appointment with him.

4)Meanwhile, connect with an Advocate to help you maneuver through whatever process you need to go through.

5)Meet your PC doctor, give him copy of your records, and ask for all those examinations and tests previously outlined.

Is this more or less what you have in mind, for getting our Cherry Troop's act together?

Re: Categories of Wounds: You know my views about that. A wound is a wound is a wound. Period. The only difference is how physical and emotional wounds are handled. The physical ones are self-evident, and handling these is almost  a cut and dry matter. The emotional ones are different because they are not self-evident, and,more often than not dormant ( much like a volcano, which can errupt at some unknown time almost impossible to forecast). This is probably why there is so much difficulty in figuring how to deal with these. This is where that first Mental Health Examination becomes a critical factor in the process we've been discussing to date.

Well, let's keep on keeping on....meanwhile...it's the Fourth of July....I'm heading for a shot of Cognac!

CENTURION

Post No. 19 - Reflecting On What Was As We Conside What Is...Todayr

Reporting for Roll Call: 15:35Hrs - 7-1-13

Hi LT:

Re: Coming home. Much like you, a lot of us who came back from Korea, found ourselves in a completely indifferent world. You landed at Travis on a moonless night, with no one else there waiting for you. I landed at McCord AFB, near Seattle,in an icy grey dawn, after a rather weird transpacific flight routed through Chemnya, Anchorage, and finally Seattle. Of course, I wasn't getting out, just being re-assigned to a new posting. Generous as always, aster almost three years overseas, the Army gave me 10 days leave to find my way back to the East Coast and return ,to report for a cycle of DI duty at Ft.Ord.  CA. Standing there in that dawn's early light, in threadbare fatigues, with a bulging duffel, an M1 slung on my shoulder, a 45 on my hip, and helmet, the only thing I could think of was...where can I get a goddam hot cup of coffee, followed by...where the hell am I...and where do I go from here.?

The only other human around, was another poor bastard in the same pathetic gear, who could have passed for my twin brother. We'd been seat neighbors on the flight. The only two on board who weren't on stretchers. How we were ever booked on that MedEvac flight from Tokyo, is a mystery to this day. So there we stood like two tall lonesome pines, in total blank state of mind, until a AF MP jeep came roaring up, with the lone driver of it saying...what the F...are you guys doing out here on the tarmack? You're supposed to report to the Ops Center. Get your asses in this buggy...like now! (Welcome home...dumbasses!). That was our homecoming parade. I  only mention all this LT because we weren't unique. Same with you kids home from Nam. You could multiply such little scenarios by the hundreds of thousands, every day. That's the way it was...not because of any real indifference by the folks here at home, but because both those wars, really didn't have much of a direct impact on the rest of the country...busy with catching and making out with the "good life". We bands of brothers were simply casual "litter" cluttering up the streets.Neither those two conf licts, nor those of Iraq and Afghanistan, really meant anything to the country as a whole (Not lke WWII). As for the Services, they were busy with various fire fights, those of us no longer involved...didn't compute. While our "experience" had some parallels, as I said, you were getting out...I lingered on for another seven years.

For me, by then, the VA wasn't anything more than some kind of vague outfit which could be a source of "benefits" of some kind or another. Meanwhile, I was busy, trying to figure out what an ex-armored unit commander could do as a civilian. Not much demand in civilian world for one of those...Al Capone was dead, and Brinks wasn't hiring. Briefly toyed with joining the MD State Police, or maybe manhandling bulldozers (they're tracked critters, right?). But now with a growing family to support, neither option seemed to fit. But good old Uncle said...hey...hang on there...work for me...pays better...perks better....and...your military experience is just what we need, and, as a bonus, the time you work for me can be combined with it, towards your 20 for retirement purposes. Meanwhile, we're trying to train a bunch of folks over there in a Kingdom called .... Laos .....attaboy....sign right there......and the rest of that tune lasted for another 8 1/2  years.

But this pattern fits a whole bunch of guys(and gals). As I previously mentioned...the Armed Forces are the Armed Forces....and the VA is the VA. For most of us they're just two different worlds with only a very, very vague connection. As for "benefits" much depends on how these are defined...and by whom. Education, VA Home Loan guarantees, medical, etc. But, each category appears to have specific time limits, and, apparently, maybe some financial means tests as well. What this means is...every individual veteran, besides doing all those things we've mentioned so far, also needs to check and see just exactly what other kinds of "benefits" ae available.

Well, enough of all this generic stuff. Reflecting on what was, has some valure, but, we need to consider what...is...today.

Re: Disability Claims process. So our Cherry Troop, having followed all the steps, all the rules mentioned so far, now comes to a point where he needs to file a disability benefit claim. How does it start? But, before we go further, I think it's important we make a distinction here between, normal medical care and treatment services, which his VA Card allows him to get from it, and, any claim for "disability". They are two separate things. Care and services are what you get, regardles. What priority of service you get, and what you may have to co-pay for some of that, depends on your VA Card Category. As far as "disability". that's the big fork in the road, so to speak.

Okay, how and where does it begin, LT? Have to think, our Cherry Troop's primary care doctor, must be the first link in that chain. What's involved? since we're dealing with bureaucracy here, and going through a bureaucratic exercise ...forms....blessed forms...are your entry tickets to the process. What are they? Who gets them? Break it down for us, please.

CENTURION

Post No. 17 - VA Not The Enemy

Reporting for Roll Call -=15:05Hrs - 6-26-13

Hi LT:

Will attempt to catch up today. Missed Mon. due to one of those nuisance cold bugs which had settled in my upper bronchial area. So...not AWOL....just short time out for SICK CALL.

Re: Your Rule #5 - The VA is not the enemy(even if it just often feels that way!) On the whole I'll go along with that, but, it still has a long way to go before we can say it is  "outcome" oriented...instead of fixated on "crocheting" procedudres.That's not to say it isn't filled with dedicated and well-meaning people, many fellow veterans, but they're constrained in their desire to help and do the right thing, by a "legalistic" set of rules and regulations... which can be squarely laid back at...Congress' door...not the VA's. Of course there's the other, and inherent, factor related to the nature of any bureaucracy which, over time...tends to fossilize its SOPs.

But that's the way things are, so, whatever we do on this -front end- to help others learn how to maneuver successully through the complexities imposed by the "system", is good. Our analogy of it being like a mine field, and we're just trying to perceive and avoid the mines as we go through it...is as apt as it gets. Yet we should not also overlook any opportunities or means to pressure Congress about such things. I'll be blunt here...it is always ready and willing to send our troops into harms way, but, when it comes time to pay the butcher's bill for such military forays...it's very reluctant to honor those obligations. And it's that reluctance by Congress which drives how the VA deals with claims,etc. In my view, every parent, spouse, or any other relative or citizen, who has, or knows, someone serving our country should be pounding and their Representatives and Senators doors demanding their support to make things right...so we don't have the kinds of backlogs and delays like we have today. I would also think that every veterans organization should be out there screaming bloody hell too. Hmm...how many do you think really are doing that? Good question. Like we've said before...everyone supports our troops...till they have the gall to come marching home(even if they're gimping along)...instead of in a flag-draped box. It's nice to know we've all served such a grateful nation.

Such a viewpoint probably makes me into a full-blown "heretic". So be it! Let them prove me wrong by what they do..not what they say (like I've said, I'm from Missouri...so I'll believe them only when they have...shown us).

Re: A soldier's last words. Truly sad, sad, sad. The worse part about it is... he's not a lone case. He was obiviously very conflicted about some of the things he was forced to participate in. All that on top of his physical wounds...is as horrendous as it gets. The most gut-wrenching part of his letter is the way he feels  that his physical and emotional miseries are his fault, and how, his suicide, will leave both his family and the world...better off. Even more appalling is the apparent calm and rational tone of how he analyzed his situation to come to his conclusion. It was not just because of desparation...it sounds like he had convinced himself that self-sacrifice was the only honorable thing left for him to do under such circumstances. It speaks volumes about the real character of most of our service members. Truly, the pride of our country. They deserve mcuh better than this.

Re: Okay...back to our Cherry Troop...what we've shown him so far is...don't expect someone else to take the initiative and give you the information you need. You have to get it yourself. To summarize, right at discharge, go get that VA card, ask for a primary care physician, make and keep that first appointment with him/her. Here's the key at this point:

a)Ask for a referral for a complete Mental Health evaluation,

b)Concurrently, request a complete head to toe physical, so there is an immediate record of your combined physcal and emotional existing condition.

c)If you were on the ground where there was any use of Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium, or other toxins, request the right set of blood tests for any of these. If you were exposed, those tests will show it. Keep in mind, it's not about how, or when...but that you were...exposed...and those test will either support that or not. This is important because, their effects are not always early...but develope later on....sometimes much later..those test results will be difficult to ignore or discount...when the need arises.

Okay, LT...am I more or less on target with that summary? Hope so, because I'm really interested now in getting into what supporting documentation  is necessary, and how that's gotten together.

Have to break off for today...some of that medicine is making me go see a dog about a fire hydrant.

CENTURION   

Post No. 17 - A Soldiers Last Words

Reporting for ROLL CALL  1:51PM  6/24/13

As a songwriter, I have come up with new 'names' for PTSD, nightmares and suicide.  I call PTSD "The Black Snake".  It is a war wound that coils within the soul of the wounded inflicting life long pain.  I call nightmares "Dancing with the Devil's Daughter.  Those wounded with the Black Snake coiled within their souls suffer from having to Dance with the Devil's Daughter every night.  And, I call suicide "The Pit of Nadir".  Often times, the wounded warrior falls into the Pit of Nadir.....

I want to bring to your attention our "LINKS OF INTEREST" on this ROLL CALL page.  I just added a new one called "A Soldier's Last Words".  

We are receiving a whole lot of 'hits' now on this unique page.  ROLL CALL is spreading across our land, and I am receiving lots of comments.  I'm actually now helping some Veterans as their Veteran Advocate.  I look forward to doing more to help if they want it.  This link was sent to me by an older Mormon from Washington State who is not a Veteran, but is terribly concerned about our wounded warriors.  I thank her for sending this to me.

Please read this letter.  His last.  He was writing it as he was falling into the Pit of Nadir.  Tired of Dancing with the Devil's Daughter, and too afraid to face the Black Snake one more time.  This is the way many who suffer war wounds respond.  

This is why it is so terribly important to follow the Rules and Steps here on ROLL CALL.  And, it is so important for any reading these words who need help to study this web site from top to bottom.  It's taken us a little bit of time to 'zone in' on it, but now there is plenty of 'meat on the bone' here for any who need help to find it right here.  

LT Bobby Ross

Post No. 16 - PTSD as first item on the agenda

Reporting for Roll Call -16:15 Hrs.-6-21-13

Hi LT:

Re: PTSD - Okay, you recommend that PTSD should be the first item on a veteran's agenda,to get his prmary doctor to set up an appointment with Mental Health Clinic, for an evaluation, and that this should be done completely separate from any other medical problems. Per your comment, to mention anything else just gives the VA bureaucracy a stronger opening to stall when it comes to filing a claim.

What this tells me is that the medical channels at the VA really have little to say about determining "disability". All they can do is give the medical facts about a given case, but not provide any kind of evaluation relating to disability. If that's the case then that's another one of those "landmines" in the process we were talking about.

Now, having gotten that appointment with the Mental Health folks, our Cherry Troop then faces whatever phsychological hoops these want him to jump through. And from that...are they the ones who make an evaluation about his level of PTSD? If so what happens next?

Re: For other problems, like Agent Orange impacts, you seem to be recommending that these be done separately. A shotgun approach?

Maybe it's just me, but such a piecemeal approach seems as cockamaimy a process as can be imagined. That's what it sounds like to me...but what do I know?

CENTURION  

Post No.15 - Moving into the Process

Reporting for Roll Call - 15:15Hrs - 6-19-13

Hi LT:

Re: VA Card...as I previously mentioned the medical services of the VA were then for those with service connected problems/disabilities or retirees. Maybe it was in the 90s, but it took enabling legislation by Congress to make it otherwise. If you recall, they mounted a big promotional campaign, including a deadline, to get veterans signed up for it. It wasn't until then that the idea of applying those services to all veterans really took hold. As far as I know, I'm still a Cat. C with that card. As to those who claim "they don't want or believe in getting a hand out", I've never considered that as anything but an ignorant outlook. Anyway, you asked me that question, and that was my take on it all. Any idiot can take a potshot at a situation, but it serves no purpose unless you have some thoughts about how to fix it...no matter how far out those might be (yeah, yeah...i"m as far out as it gets...I know.)

Re: PTSD...I'm with you, and glad we're getting into the process. The first thing that comes to mind is this: How is the claim initiated? I think our Cherry Troop should get some idea about it at this point. Who determines the need to file a disability claim? The veteran's doctor...both together? And what are the immediate requirements to do so? Can you give us some specifics about that? Not nitpicking, just curious and trying to understand the process. Well, I'm looking forward to that.

Short sidebar comment here...re: that 47% PTSD figure they've come up with...DUH...any veteran who has had combat experience must have been impacted by it. Granted, some more than others...interesting it's taken all those experts and pundits all this time to figure that out. C'est la vie!

CENTURION